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tv   CNN Tonight  CNN  December 5, 2022 8:00pm-9:00pm PST

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former president trump, are now falsely claiming he didn't call for determination of the united states constitution to return him to power. but isn't that exactly what he said to true social post this weekend. scientific information because here's the quote. quote, a massive fraud, this type of magnitude allows the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles. even those found in the constitution. our great founders did not want, and would not condone, false and fraudulent elections. so i'm not saying which just
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freak out about every trump comment. because he says a lot about outrageous things all the time. and he happens to be a bit of a political provocateur, shall we say. but this is different. this is the idea of terminating the constitution in support of his insistence that he won and election that he lost. and it's arguably, maybe, his most extreme and anti-democratic statement yet. and it's part of a dangerous and broader pattern. more than two years after his defeat, former presidents toward except the 2020 election results. just last week, he defended the insurrectionist from the capital, on january 6th. he tried to kill then vice president pence. who's upholding the peaceful transfer of power. and they were brutally assaulting police officers. in september, even mentioned potential pardons for the rioters. >> and then on financially supporting people that are incredible. and it's been a much by months.
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it is disgrace what they've done to them. if i decide to run, and if i would, i'll be looking very very strongly about pardons. full pardons. >> of course he has said he's going to run now. he's been pushing election lies for years. here is what he said on fox in the summer of 2020. months before any votes were even cast. >> are you saying you might not accept the results of the election? can you give us a direct answer. >> i have to see. no one to say yes. i'm not gonna say last time either. >> what we did. see we made a lot of comments about the idea of. of whom this back in 2018. are praising chinese president xi jinping. victoria >> is not president for life.
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he's able to do, that think it's great. i want to get better shot someday. >> that is not -- donald trump to columns of the law in order president. but he's advocating for the throwing out of the constitution. that is the basis you realize for law and order in this country. it's not an isolated incident. this is the reason we much focus on it. and we can't turn away. because i mentioned he is running for reelection to be, i assume, a lot more to president again. >> honoring pollster, and communication -- from glance. i'll simply call commentator eric feeney. and eric williams. because they're such a way wrong. >> thank you, i do feel some days that i'm not the best but i'm glad that you said anyway.
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i'm thinking about this, and continue about donald trump to stay pretty mates. it's no surprise that he made a number of outrageous statements. this one feels different in the danger that has been presented. because of january 6th. but also, it has been presented at a time when congressman liz cheney to said he poses a threat to our democracy. is this, to you? ringing differently than some of the other substantive comments he has made? >> it does bring differently because the idea. and i originally thought that he was going to suspend the constitution. i was suspended when i was in high school. for one day, and i was allowed back. by the way i don't know what it's about cnn. i've been to admit all the things they did wrong in my earlier years. next week we'll be talking about drug use. trump backed the wrong candidates. and lost virtually all of them in the senate. in 2022. then he goes and attacks the two most popular republican governors.
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the governor virginia, and florida. and now he talks about terminating the constitution. he is destroying himself. and he's not smart enough to realize that. that republicans are turning away from him in droves. and the only thing that gets people to support him, or to feel like he is a victim, is how he is treated by outsiders. for example, they should never have invaded mar-a-lago, and use that term. because that is his term that he used. without explaining why. and he's perfectly justified. these are classified documents. he had no business handling them. but justice department did explain it for six days. donald trump will destroy himself if he is allowed to, and how you handle that, and i know your viewers one degree. because they want to yell at him. but how he's handled the determines whether not he is still credible, even at this moment. and i say the people out there, if you don't like donald trump, just wait a few more weeks. and he will do enough damage that he's done.
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>> i have to tell you. i'm not entirely convinced that a man with the moniker of, teflon don, is describing a kind of kamikaze. i wonder who takes down with him. because republicans are thinking but -- making the south annihilation. but instead the idea of what impact it has in the party. and our public incidents graham her refusing to answer questions about this. we know that john corden was saying the trump is responsible. victoria expects the language of people running away on the pole not looking back. victoria and i want to say that do you share optimism. saying that he is going to do enough self destruction that he will no longer be an issue to reconcile, or deal with? >> the problem is that, as you said is who did you take down with him. this is take our country down with him?
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that was certainly what it seems he was attempting to do on january 6th. and certainly, the right number of times throughout his presidency. i keep going back to charlottesville. good people on both sides. . for many of us it was the meeting, and degrading to the united states of america. to have a president who could not just call out hate speech, and white supremacy is being wrong. and i think it is very possible that he just implodes. i think it is likely. and there is a sector of the republican parties to believe some, still falls him, they'll still give him money. and so i think you suppose that danger. but i also think we need to call out is that it is not a profiling courage to say however you characterize his behavior, now, after the 2022 election. the voters, so clearly, are the ones that have been did the work, and have the backbone. if republican members of
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congress, if mitch mcconnell or kevin mccarthy have stood up to him, charlottesville, after january 6th. illuminati we are in this moment. >> mcconnell did. he's very articulate about. he drew trump's ire, and in fact, because mcconnell did. trump got involved in those senate primaries. >> i think he did it then he pulled back. -- >> to weigh in. because mcconnell, for example. he did in the peach me discussion where he didn't go all the way through it and every aspect of it. by think to the larger point about the different moments, i do wonder, look, there are a lot of investigations when the ground. there is a jury deliberating, as we speak. maybe not as we speak right now, it's on the clock tonight, that we watch on the show. deliberating tomorrow. but issues surrounding the trump organization. but everything is saying, i can imagine prosecutors going, yes, please tell me more about your
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intentions. >> just keep talking. that's the prosecutors. think being a what. i feel like we act in that safe that this is so anomalous inside the blue that you have a former president acting this way, and being investigated, and seeing the kind of things that he does. we look around the world, and if you were to see -- saying some of the same things. we went back and i. at the global stage, russia, brazil, china, strongman all being elected. and it would not that if of donald trump. we get together heads from the fact that this could happen here. the same kind of bad is happens around the world. or, for presents being indicted it is real, italy, france, it happens. donald trump is not sort of an aberration. and we ought to treat them. ? . like the problem that he could bring to the country. >> that's an important point
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because i do think part of a donald trump, that certainly the insurrection showed us the something i said the time. we have to stop saying this isn't we, are -- >> this is what we are. it's not who we have to be. and we actually can't change. but we have to be, i think, have the awareness that says that this is not who we want to be. and we don't want to be a country with the former president. it's not just one investigation, it is multiple investigations. on multiple fronts. and so i hope that that is part of what comes out of this. that the 2022 midterms was a. start >> stick around, we have more conversations. ahead and on this point we want to hear more from you as well, frank, on these issues. because you wonder, in the microcosm of the republican party. democratic party. is that they did to do they want as well because there could be a leader of these party sniffing passions. stay around on that in those instances. now the former president, you refused to acknowledge his loss and the last election. as you will know. you are about to go to polls and the next election, the senate runoff in georgia.
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we are literally hours away from the election, and the latest cnn polling shows that democratic, senator raphael warnock with a narrow lead over republican challenger, herschel walker. among likely voters, 52% plan to vote for warnock while 48% say that they plan to vote for walker. back with me, now frank lance. you know, first of, all we are here because it's a runoff. it is a narrow edge that were not given has over walker. so a lot of early voting
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happening right. now you, no talk to me about, it's a bit of a nine phrases that you see voters are willing -- it matters most to voters. what are those in this election? >> well, i'll give you the example, the voters are desperately in pursuit of the truth a relentless pursuit of the truth. it is something that cnn does, it is something that we're looking, not just from the media but we are looking from our elected officials. the candidates are pursuing the truth they only want support. we ask for real results, not what you see in your campaign ads, but what you can show people that are meaningful, measurable impact on the average individual. affordability, it is not inflation. inflation is some academic term. people don't walk into supermarkets and say, wow, look at that inflation. they say, look at those prices, i can't afford that. problem solver. maybe a little bit less than the senate or for mayor. but, they're looking for people who understand and recognize what is wrong and have an idea of how to fix it. cleaner, safer, healthier for those people watching who care
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about climate and the problem with climate is that they talk about sustainability. that is the status quo. the public want is better -- , cleaner, safer, healthier, accountability. the idea that someone does something wrong, transparency, merely to let you know what's going on. oversight is perform a tory but accountability, you could grab someone by the neck and say, you made this, promise you didn't keep, it now i'm holding him responsible. and common sense. don't talk to me like a politician. talk to me like a human being. and let's get something done, let's work together, that's the unity. work together, roll up your sleeves with and get it done. these are the attributes, and so look at georgia. i see early turnout benefiting warnock. i see the fact that no longer there is a senate in play, so that's more of a reason for democrats to vote than republicans. herschel walker is not as good as a candidate. and, so a lot of people were voting for him because they
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wanted republican control of the senate. not necessarily because of him but despite him. we and there it is, the democrats have raised so much more money in georgia, all three of those suggest that warnock had a small but still important victory tomorrow. >> what i think is fascinating is that when i was in trial, the most persuasive argument that we made was they would use a nickel word as opposed to a 20-dollar bill. or talk to people like their human beings. and on their level of empathy on the idea of, hey, we are the same, i had the same arguments around different issues. and, the idea that we try to -- as we're talking, the win in which this election warn all between -- has largely come down to many of the ads about intelligence, about where, choice about integrity. all of the things that i think is resounding the issues that we're talking about and i just
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wonder the early voting, in particular people turning out still. i keep asking this question, i suspect that the amount of money people are paying to have these ads run know that they have to motivate people to get up. they can't just rely on hates and people know their civic duty. is that enough of a compulsion for people to say, look, i've got a turnout it's my civic duty and this is about committee assignments maybe in the long run. or, is a really coming down to as brian kemp a, said the governor of georgia, who is more motivated. after them? >> and the answer is the democrats are more motivated, at this. point the jury is a -- brian kemp won his election. and it's a state to. fashion and there are hundreds of thousands of people that voted for kemp and did not vote for the republican candidate in the senate. so the hope camp titus was that i'm gonna spend three weeks helping the republican candidate trying to transform my vote to him.
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that has only-limited effect and according to the polling it's not having an effect at all in the and it's the candidate that can reach the cross that can appeal to not just their base but voters who aren't ready to a specific. side and given the word example, freedom, for republicans there's freedom. to freedom to do what i want. freedom to be free to speak my mind. for democrats, it's freedom from. freedom from homelessness, freedom from hunger. it's a different definition of the word but it's equally important. , and the candidate that understands the principle like that, and consent of the priorities that others -- if you talk about your guidance, that's about. you you talk about your priorities, that's going to impact the voters themselves. and, i think warnock has done a reasonably good job of communication and, frankly, i don't think walker's been this effective. ed, if i'm proven wrong tomorrow, donald trump would be cheering the most because
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almost all of trump's candidate lost in the general election. the ones that were really contentious, and walker would be the last one to lose. and the republicans can legitimately say, thanks to donald, trump you just costed us the senate. so, no one's got more in the lines tomorrow. even more than herschel walker. no one's got more in the london donald trump. >> fascinating. point, and of course, he has a tele-rally happening tonight about this very issue. i'll see what happens. we're all going to be watching. my voice is not quivering because a metal emotional about -- nice talking to you. look, everyone, there's the ideas about priority and accountability and the tone overall set in the campaign, -- we were talking about, say social media. well, hate speech is surging on twitter since elon musk's takeover. the question is, why? i, mean is it because neo-nazis are being allowed back on the platform? well, we'll talk about it, next.
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elon musk is allowing a self professed white to premises back on twitter. they're responding saying that it's deeply disturbing, that and you ask him not to website the daily stormer has now been reinstated. i want to bring in the host of the onward karen -- and andy no puddle, a host of the dean of $1 show, and xm radio. so glad to have both of you on tonight, a real treat for me and the audience. ready to start with you care. because, i do wonder, what
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message do you think musk is trying to send by allowing him back on the site given all of the controversy surrounding, of course, i know even suspending just this week, kanye west tweet where he appeared to be, based on the altered image of the star of david with -- inside of a swastika, but he didn't clarify what specifically was. done so, i, wondered what message is he sending, do you think here? >> of chaos. of complete chaos. there's no rhyme or reason to these decision. he called an incitement violence, and actually, those aren't pictures that are considered incitement to violence. because you have to link it to that. it may be hate speech, and usually, people are given a couple of times to do that. and, he just like on u.s. back on. and, this one, he probably just decided himself. i'm assuming, there is nobody he's been talking internally about. that he's just going to make the decisions himself, and not listen to other people. so, maybe someone appeal to him and said that we should do this. and then, he just reinstated.
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i don't think that he should think there's a systematic way of doing it. it's just off the top of his head. >> well, off the top of my head. here's some of the numbers coming right now. just even thinking about, it hate speech has been surging on -- since elon musk took control. i mean, look at the numbers. the use of the n-word up to hundred percent. antisemitic post, up at least 61%. anti -- and gay slurs up 58%. and, i'm wondering, for you specifically dean, when you're looking at these figures, and also, maybe the absence that we're talking about from any rhyme recent to, this but the per personal discretion, i, mean you yourself have been personally targeted by andrew england. and what does this mean to you? >> i think this is elon musk normalizing a neo-nazi for reasons that none of us, no but they're wrong. being on twitter is a privilege there's not a right and elon musk has extended their privilege and andrew loves
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donald. trump, and andrew hayman fabricated tweets in my name. for his website, the daily stormer, and after hitler's favorite publication in saying that i was involved in a terrorist attack. , and told the supporters to go confronted. and they, did and they hit it with death threats and hate messages. and, he -- i sued him in federal court, and -- for motions of stress and declamation. but it wasn't for, me defy bigotry, but the did beat not see andrew england is still not paid a penny, despite our efforts to collect. it and, on that a, low we had joe, americans black americans, he is. while this is operating principle literally, what would hitler do? he's called for tearing down the holocaust museum which he calls a hose, and building 1000 foot statue to hitler.
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that's who elon musk wants on twitter. and, i hope advertising that type of question, do they want to invest in a platform that gives a platform to literally a neo-nazi? that's what we're dealing with. >> that is an excellent point that you've raised. maybe just thinking about that journey that you had to endure based on this person. and, so many others that did it mandate, the idea that there is more than just him but there was an audience and there was a waiting audience and then follow this directive, it just seems unbelievable that this is where we are. but, care, up the point that dean was racing at the end there i mean we know that, for example this is a person that is separate into part from andrew england. but, there has been decisions by different advertisers, or companies. nike, for example has cut ties with brooklyn next guard, kyrie's errands, following of course the scandal surrounding his decision to retweet and antisemitic movie and messaging. , and appear business side of, this kara, i mean there are its least financial consequences
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with then the relationship. and, musk at this moment, is trying to make twitter profitable. you've almost chuckle that that many times, possibly in the end of being. that, and you're still chuckling. but, if that is to be the correlation here, is this just bad for business? >> even betting aside the moral compass issues, is it bad for business? >> well, you're seeing, that the new york times had a good piece, and i think a lot of people have been reporting that the clinton advertisement. he's trying to see everybody's back, but there. not i, mean they would be if it was a good platform. advertisers wherever things work for them, but i think that the decline in advertisement has been significant. he's trying not to rely on. if he's trying a subscription service that didn't quite work yet. and it might work. he's trying, maybe a, i may be cutting people. he's trying all kinds of ways to make money. it's just that he spent a lot of time, tweeting a lot of time letting neo-nazis back on the site. and you know i think one of the things that you just talked
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about is that i have had relatively good experience on twitter, which is a few sort of bad exit tacking the on things like. that but since he took over, i had to turn off my comments, and because i tweeted something about the colorado shootings and i got inundated by trolls, bots, i'm sure that's what they wore for the most. part but, i had never turned off comments on twitter. and this is the first time i've done. it and, i've been there since the beginning, when it was, formed when i was one of the first twitter users. >> real quick, dean, have you had one of that similar experience now? >> i've had. some, but i look at my friend and the attacks that they've gotten. especially jewish -- and it's off the charge. and, again they have to make a choice. and i hope people make a choice, don't give your money to advertisers or giving your money to elon musk, let elon musk clean up the pool of his twitter, so we could have a civil platform and have conversations. not dehumanization. >> a civil platform, you. say you're not in washington d.c..
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that's why, there you go. and these conversations, more on, this thank you for joining. both of, your kara, dean nice to see, both having it together. well, speaking about cleaning up a bit of a mess, will the trump organization faced their tax fraud charges? well, it's all on the journeys hand. and, will they be held accountable is the big question tonight. what will the verdict be, they're deliberating. we're gonna talk about it all, next. for chest, neck, and back. itit goes on clear. no mess. just soothing comfort. try vicks vavapostick.
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well, tomorrow the jury in the trump organization, criminal tax faye tall's gonna resume deliberations, after more than four hours of discussion today. two trump organization entities facing charges of tax fraud and falsifying business records. and, what prosecutors allege is a 15-year scheme to defraud tax authority. and, in washington d.c., trump ally, rudy giuliani, facing a disciplinary hearing over his work on the former presidents election reversal attempts. all of this says the investigation around the former president continue to swirl, even as he begins his rocky bid for reelection for 2024. i am back now with frank -- and karen, and here, now with cnn legal analyst, norm eisen as well. glad to see you, all here together. normally, i begin with, you there's a lot happening, we're
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gonna cut to donald trump and the jury deliberation happening right now in the following these cases you have a similar one in d.c. and i'm wondering what do you make of what the jury has to chew over tonight. >> well, laura, they have a tax fraud too to over tonight. donald trump, his business, the trump organization paid its executives through providing various benefits and not declaring that on their tax returns. now i think that the prosecution made a strong case, this is not a slam dunk, it's a tough case that you have to prove that these payments were, quote, in behalf of the trump organization. we have a -- last time i was with, you there was a note from the jury and the oath keepers case. we got a note from the jury today. asking about one of the conspiracy charges. but, i think this was a good note. it's a serious charge of fourth
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degree conspiracy charge in new york. so, it's a good case and i think the trump work is likely going to have to deal with some criminal convictions and its immediate future. but, we'll see. >> or not trump family. that's the -- assumption to. my guess, it is, the prosecution did introduce evidence at the end of the trial that donald trump was personally aware, documentary evidence. because it has to establish this that it was done in behalf of it. this just wasn't allen weisselberg, the former top trump aide who benefited. that he was doing this just for his personal benefit that it was to help the corporation. but, i think the prosecution explained how these benefits saved money for the corporation and redemptive to the benefit of the trump work. and, they showed the jury trump knew about.
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amid -- these office has hired this person why is it significant? >> alvin bragg, the manhattan, da dropped the larger case that had been put together be this text case that's on trial now by two of the most brilliant prosecutors in america, carrie dunn and mark pomerantz. and, laura, he has taken ferocious criticism ever since because it was a righteous case, so, now to perform an active resuscitation, back from the dead, he has brought on a -- brilliant prosecutor. very tough trump adversary. very tough trump adversary working for the office of the new york attorney general where they have really gone after donald trump. now he is going to try to do the same for the manhattan da. he has a lot to work with. >> well, speaking of, that those who have been opponents,
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now about the allies, rudy giuliani, as we mentioned before, he is facing the current proceedings in watching ten d.c.. , remember he was obviously challenged, shall we, say based on his arguments that he made in court about election denialism. and the legal arguments aside, the politics of this has really been, already, on trial in the electorate, right? election denialism, was on the ballot this term. what do you say? >> i say that rudy giuliani, like many of us have started to face the music. i mean, he went forward and tried to, obviously, make a pretty spacious argument that we know was not factually correct. but, look, rudy's, brand he should've stopped after being americas mayor. i mean he did -- he did a great job, he was at the top. he should've stopped then. because it has been his brand has continued to diminish over the years. , and this is just another very
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sad case of someone who, you, know has really let his career go by the ways of, it followers donald trump were talking about who does donald trump take down with. the this is one of those votes. >> well, not just the eagle legacy aspect of it. to the idea that the arguments that he was making that some voters still buy into this day, even though there has not been the proof in the court of law, there's the court of public opinion, and some people still, think no, what they said was. right and the election was stolen. you are a -- focus on this a great deal, does this still ring true? even despite his actions in the proceedings? >> it brings true to about 30% of the republican electors. so, 50% of the population. and, nothing is going to change that. they have made up their minds and facts be, people be, they're going to believe. this and rudy giuliani, because of what he did on 9/11 and being a great mayor he had credibility. until people listen to him.
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and in, fact giuliani had more credibility than the man he was defending. and it has taken him, down his reputation is nowhere where he used to. be, and it's hard to believe that on september 11th, he was the most trusted person among all americans of any living human being. and, now he is fighting for his law license. >> while! a lot has changed. many fall from political grace, shall we say. but, as you mentioned, 50% of the american electorate believe in something that, in a large, part was fueled and cultivated and nurtured through his own voice in the courts across the country. and, of course, in front of the camera. a lot more about credibility. and, here is a case where it can be undermined. simply for those who are in -- a power, how about in tampa, where the police chief was pulled over in a traffic stop and then had to resign less than a month later. we'll tell you why and what happens after this.
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downy provides 7 benefits for your clothes, like making them softer and fresher. plus, downy fights fading and stretching. make your laundry softer, fresher, and look newer longer. a police chief resigning after this traffic stop. take a look -- okay. i'm hoping that you will just let us go. >> oh, okay. not to say that you look familiar so. i'm sure i do, okay so have a
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good night. -- >> we live here. okay, all right, well it's nice to meet. you saw i'm -- >> same here my friend. >> that was the former police chief, mary o'connor. she was placed on administrative, leave pending on internal affairs investigation. and, following the completion of the investigation, she resigned. back with me, franklin's, karen finney and norm eisen. you want something like that and the idea of this happening in early november, by the, way and now here we are, already in the beginning of december and she's already resigning. that's a pretty quick process. i wonder if it's the factor of the attention that police are. under to do obviously the right thing, that's at the. cool stop talking. don't hand him your badge.
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>> not for being a criminal, but because she was a bad criminal. that is the point, yes, it's obvious. you don't announce that you're the police chief. >> right. >> well, that's as to, me too, somebody isn't bold enough to, say oh it's on, here you go. and, then again, mind you it worked. in that instance, right? it's not like she had a ticket. or there was an arrest of any kind. it was successful. which, of course, makes people question the idea of did this happen all the time? does it happen so frequently that she felt that embolden. and, also, i wonder if there's more to the story. i'm sure we'll soon find. out >> it's accountability. this is why the public wanted. transparency only gives you the information that it happened. accountability forced her from her job. and that's what the americans want across the country, and what they want for the police, the politicians, the businesspeople, the journalist, everyone. let's hold people accountable. >> that's absolutely right. and i've seen similar polling that shows, i, mean across race,
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gender, region. you know political persuasion. it is something that all americans agree on, there is a belief that people who are in positions of power have too much power, that the abuse and so accountability up and down is the right. think you >> talk a lot about the idea and we all heard this phrase no one being above the law and we hear it in terms of a president of the united states but in reality how often have you and i had this conversation when we talk about the average person or whether there's a cop doing this or whether you and i doing something? we often think about it in terms of how the electorate how the everyday people consider how they would be treated if they did the same thing. and, instances like this, they make you question whether they would've been accountable in the same way. >> well, laura. , every day thousands of times a day, across america, law enforcement officials and i'll tell you, even though some former prosecutors who have their prosecutor i.d. very
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prominently displayed if they get pulled over. people signal that they're part of law enforcement. you see it on bumper stickers. i support the cops, right? people want to break. often, we want to cry the era of social media. but, there is a good side to all of this information. i count ability. >> and that is what we talked about. the idea, of course in georgia, there was a flashing of a bat by one candidate, herschel walker, trying to promote the very, notion it didn't really work out in the subway. but, i wonder, i want to ask you, when people see, this especially in the voters from polling, does this make them think less of those in law enforcement? or does it just cost me a nominal? >> it confirms their suspicion. and, it is a very smart question because it both sets to them that the justices -- justice is happening. but it also says that criminal behavior is happening to. it's a two edged sword. >> well, i wonder about that. the idea of how will think about crime in the ways that we
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think about those very. issues really fascinating. i do wonder what's gonna happen to the deputy. i also wonder about how this came to be. but, more on this another day. well, today, we do have some sad news tonight from the world of entertainment. actress kristie aly has died at the age of 71. her family said she had a brief battle with cancer. her career spanned decades, in movies, and televisions including her role as rebeca -- rebecca howell on the popular nbc succumb, sheer. she was in other shows as, well including veronica's closet. kristie aly was a two-time emmy award winner. a statement or children said, our mothers zest and passion for, life her children, grandchildren, or many, animals not to mention her eternal joy of creating were unparalleled and leave us inspired to live life to the fullest. just as she did. thank you for watching.
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but this time tomorrow night the weekend of the votes of georgia senate runoff. the polls close its, have been where cnn's coverage begins at. for at stake, whether democratic senator holds up challenger, herschel walker give democrats a 51 to 49 majority and controlled senate committees next year. the race is already seeing a record number of ballots cast, massive campaigns, biden especially the democratic side. negative ads on both sides and retaliation to personal can misconduct of women against walker.

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